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Thursday, October 31, 2013

Lessons Learned in Arguing With Conservatives

The first thing I learned was that I was going to need a lot of patience because we were going to go down many rabbits trails before we got to the main topic. I knew I was going to have to take a lot of name calling, sift through the exaggerations, and  I needed to try and calm down my angry opponent. That’s right, I’m satisfied with the last two presidential elections and my opponent is not. An angry person is not likely to make much sense until they cool down.

The conservative is likely to be a Ronald Reagan or a Ron Paul disciple, so they come into the argument with an idea that they are superior and if things somehow don’t go their way, then the system had to be rigged. They seem to think that President Obama couldn’t possibly get those millions of votes legitimately, so he would had to entice his constituents with government goodies. There’s no other possible explanation.

In the VA’s thread titled “America is ineptocrasy not democracy “the right-wing commenters wanted to make it about “makers and takers” and they got upset when other posters did not want to follow that storyline. They want to control the dialogue using their talking points rather than facts from reliable sources.

I had to sit patiently while my conservative opponent went through his monologue where he would call the president a socialist, tyrant, illegitimate, or the latest thing he heard from talk radio. I knew that I would be wasting my time trying to refute all those false claims, so I sat there and" bit my tongue" until we could get to the issues. It’s a rope- a- dope tactic.

If we were arguing in front of an audience, my conservative opponent would put on a show, by wildly exaggerating all his points. I had to carefully phrase my opinions and points, so he didn't mock my answers as much, since we are not having a formal debate. A good example is the last comment in the “Voter ID Law No problem in Crossroads” thread where a poster stated “Did you bother to read the article? “The voter ID law hasn't presented any problems. The gloom and doom stories were just that, stories?” The poster doesn’t know that’s such a small sample, that it is not representative sample that we can rely on but he thinks we can’t read.

The conservative is not dumb, but you have to keep repeating the facts that you got from reliable sources because they won’t sink in the first, second or even the third time around. For example, many have moved off the IRS non scandal because there were not enough facts to support their conspiracy, so it quickly became not a matter of concern. Benghazi is still alive to them because they think there are still pieces of evidence around to bring down the Obama Administration or to weaken Hillary Clinton in her presidential run. The Republicans have not come up with any meaningful legislation, so this is all they have to cling to.

Today, the GOP is on a “what did the president know and when did he know it?” strategy. Yesterday’s congressional hearing about the disastrous rollout of the website, there were  more questions and statements about the president’s promise that people could keep their crappie insurance policies if they wanted to. It’s too late in the game for the GOP to start playing the “I feel your pain” game because everyone is aware that they have never cared about universal affordable health care.


Mike said...

This is what I'm talking about.
These guys buy tin foil by the ship load.

The Alamo will not fall under United Nations control if it is named a UNESCO World Heritage site, the Texas Land commission assured Texans on Wednesday, according to the San Antonio Express-News.

In a statement Wednesday Jerry Patterson, the Texas land commissioner, called rumors that the U.N. might manage the Alamo and other Spanish missions in Texas "horse hockey."

"The people of Texas own the Alamo now and in the future. Nothing is going to change that," Patterson said at a gun rights rally at the Alamo on Oct. 19.

George Rodriguez, former president of the San Antonio Tea Party, stirred up rumors in a piece titled 'The New Battle of the Alamo.'

Rodriguez said Wednesday that he never stated that the U.N. would take control, but that he merely provided a "cautionary tale."

“I'm just constantly saying 'may' or 'might,'" he explained. "I'm never once saying that this is going to happen. We need to be aware."

Mike said...

And so Rand Paul gets caught plagiarizing Wikipedia several times but instead of apologizing and taking responsibility ,he blames those who pointed it out...

born2Bme said...

Most of my extended family is Conservative. It gets kind of awkward trying to defend something when you feel all alone.

Mike said...

You are the third person I’ve heard from who is surrounded by conservative relatives…:_0 it may sound strange but I envy you but maybe that’s because I’ve haven’t had a face-to-face argument in 12 years. And when I was arguing, President Obama had not been elected.

I can relate sort of, I used to be surrounded by conservative coworkers, who couldn’t wait to pounce on a negative tidbit.

Another example of what we are up against is a poster on my VA blog about Voter ID.…He stated that a woman voted 20 times, but that was not true…She did vote more than once, and she is now in jail…He came back and said that proved there was voter fraud…It doesn’t matter how many times I said voter fraud was minuscule, and the fact his post was demonstrably untrue, he’s not going to apologize for it.

born2Bme said...

No one is arguing the fact that there are a few instances of voter fraud. There will always be those who cheat at whatever is in their paths, but it would never be enough to change the outcome of an election the way these new voter ID laws will.
It irritates me when they keep saying that everyone should have the ID they need since they have to show ID for cashing checks, passports, etc.
They have no idea how many people don't drive, don't have checking accounts, don't travel, etc.
Photo'd college ID's should count because to get those, a lot of information had to be presented to get those cards.
And, it really makes no sense to allow mail-in ballots, without having to show photo ID.
I've had to do things through the mail where I had to send a copy of my DL. Why isn't that mandatory?

Mike said...

I would have liked to have told that poster that if Wells Fargo got robbed in Houston, you wouldn’t see them instituting “stop and frisk” laws before entering the bank in Victoria. If he was really interested in stopping voter fraud he wouldn’t’ have to exaggerate his point; the evidence would be out there.

I know what you mean because the people who lack ID are not likely to board an airplane to Europe. They have voted for decades without showing a driver’s license or a voter ID card. College students already have a picture ID but it doesn’t qualify them to vote but we know why.

An overwhelmingly majority of those who use a mail-in ballot are Republicans.

It’s a case of “you certainly have the power to do this but we know why you’re doing it.”

Mike said...

Another incident of gun violance @ LAX ,wonder if the voter ID zealots will agree that we need to submit to a background before purchasing a gun?...Nevermind ,I know the answer.

Legion said...

One of the best quotes I've heard...

"We need to quit calling avoiding a crisis as a success."

Sen Mark Warner

Mike said...

Especially a self manufactured crisis.