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Thursday, February 16, 2012

Just admit it


I admire the people that say that they're not interested in politics and generally stay out of  the subject.  I remember presenting my side of the argument to some that did not engage in our daily political arguments, to see if I was too far to the left.  Usually they were genuinely uninterested.  I could get the religious people to give me their opinion, but those types of arguments were few and in between.  I usually stayed out of those arguments because it's pretty easy to see that I suck at it.  I'm very uncomfortable discussing the subject.

I don't know what inspires me to get into daily arguments on our forum.  I have to think legion357 is right. I'm beginning to miss the daily jousting, I had at work.  If I did that at home, my wife would very likely tell me that I'm interrupting her soap operas.  She would probably encourage me to call up an old friend, but it wouldn't be inappropriate to call my old friends and say hey," let's go to Ramsey's and argue politics." In that situation, we would spend the first hour so catching up and an hour or so of trying to remember names.  Oh if I had a nickel for every time we said, " I got his or hers name on a tip of my tongue" and what's bad is  when we're trying to remember a friend's name that has recently died or is in the hospital.  I guess that I can put all that stuff in my iPad but my friends would have to do, likewise, and that takes the spirit out of catching up.  It would be like watching that scroll across the bottom your TV screen.

Politics and blogs are my hobbies now, because I'm always seeking information rather than enjoying life.  When I was at work, the hour or so of arguing satisfied me, so I only watched an hour of the news or politics, the rest was for family and leisure television programing.  On our forum, a number posters shoot from the hip and assume they are right, but it's something that I have not gotten used to.  My old compadres were very knowledgeable, so I had to bring my "A" game, every single day.  If the posters on the forum would simply admit their bias and present their case, we could have a decent discussion.  Over 70% of the time I'm having to post links merely to add a little credibility to the discussion.  If both parties understand the subject, they are arguing about, then quoting a source should not matter.  Most of the sources come from AP, hence you can read the same article in the Washington Times and the Washington Post.  It's when the opinionated journalist writes their viewpoint that the facts take a left or right turn.

I would be willing to bet that if we actually had a gathering, the hot rhetoric at the VA would subside tremendously.  I'm not worried  about BigJ, Pilot, Sugar Magnolia,EA,Rebecca,Legion or a few others because, if we haven't offended one another after all these years, the likelihood of that happening is small.  It's like the saying they had for the flamboyant baseball player named Manny Ramirez,"that's just Manny being Manny." We have occasional disagreements(as all humans do) but nothing earth shaking.  Every single person that I mentioned in the above paragraph has admitted where they stand at one time or another, and they all have above-average intelligence. They have all defined themselves instead of letting others define them.


Rebecca said...

Very kind words, Mike.

I feel uncomfortable arguing about religion, too. Mainly because I think it should be lived. A life is proof -and I think we preach daily to those who know us best. Arguing about religion does it a disservice and usually becomes the best case against it.

Just like arguing religion, when some people argue politics the way they do, it really turns me off from their position. In fact, watching you and Edith Ann has really helped me not get so caught up in the emotional rhetoric.

You guys have helped me see things from another perspective. Nothing about the way I live has changed, just my understanding - which makes me not feel like I need to argue.

I'm not interested in politics anymore. Mainly because I can kinda see where everyone is coming from and I see the fighting as destructive. Arguing and reasoning is good. God appreciates that, man doesn't. =P

Rebecca said...

I should have used the word "fight" instead of "argue" somewhere in there.

Edith Ann said...

Rebecca--I really don't like arguing about religion either, but I dislike hypocrisy even more. I am talking about the hypocrisy of 'mine is the only true religion' and the 'it's our way or the highway' kind of religious Bible thumping that goes on.

I find it interesting that Jared is passing judgement on the Notre Dame professor who is writing about progressive Catholicism.

I am sad to hear that you are not so interested in politics anymore. I think it is important for folks to participate in the process. That is how it works best. But, I'm not going to beat you up about it.

I'm not 100% sure, but I hope I am interpreting your comment about watching us is a compliment?

Rebecca said...

Yes, it was a compliment. I misplaced that sentence.

Mike said...

I've never known Rebecca and to be interested in politics...but she didn't deny your statement,so I guess in her past life, she used to argue politics..:-)
Throughout the years I have made a disclaimer at the bottom of some of my posts, stating that I am not the official spokesman for the democrats, liberals, progressives or any label known to man.... Like you, I don't like people saying what a Catholic is or is not because religion is based on faith ,even though the church has his own dogma. We had currently have some Bishops interpreting medieval church teaching and yes that is the official stance of the church but it will eventually evolve and then those staunch hypocrites will have egg on their face. I don't agree with your opinion that American Catholics should form another chapter because disagreement is always part of change, people would be surprised of what Mother Teresa thought about birth control....

Several years ago I heard that American Catholics represented a small percentage of the world's Catholics but the 25% of the churches funding comes from the United States, so they tolerate our radicalism... Women no longer have to wear scarves( as they did in my mother's day) and we have girls serving as alter persons. There are exceptions for fasting during Lent and I don't even want to mention the exceptions that are made during annulment... When we were married by the church, they constantly preached" what is done by God cannot be undone by man"... We now have Newt Gingrich who has been divorced a couple times but now he's on the straight and narrow preaching about Obama promoting a war on religion.... Don't even let me get into the committee hearing they had on women's health yesterday but they didn't have one witness who has actually given birth..... I guess some would agree with Rick Santorum's sugar daddy when he said that back in the old days a woman used an aspirin, she held between your legs as a contraceptive. they actually joke about a woman's health issue.

In the meantime we have posters who think if you don't agree with them, you are a government loving socialist, who needs to go to Europe( if you can afford it) and then they cut and paste a part of the constitution, Bill of Rights or the Declaration of Independence to prove their point.. Yesterday, Rush Limbaugh said the democrats love birth control but he's been married four times and doesn't have any children.

BTW Forth graders know more about the documents I mentioned than those posters.

Mike said...


That's the point I was trying to make.There two sides to every issue and we don't have to agree...It's like economics,just because it worked this time doesn't mean it's a truth certain...Things change...About the only constant is cooking where temperature and time are constant...I can set my grill for 375,place a T-bone on the grill turn it over after 10 minutes and again after 10 minutes and it comes out the way I like it each time...When human beings are involved in the equation,we have a different set of circumstances...

Edith Ann said...

I completely agree with what you said, Mike. And that is my thinking, too. What's to say that the Catholic Church is not going to make some progressive moves? We've seen it happen, just as you say. And you are right about Rebecca and politics, but I do think she follows, without commenting.

As to those folks over on the Advocate suggesting those of us who disagree with move to Europe--be careful about taking suggestions from them. One suggested we start with Venezuela!

Rebecca said...

Yes, I used to argue politics. It was my obsession. I listened to Rush during the day and watched Fox News when I could. I even listened to Point of View on the Christian radio station. Though I see another perspective and I am free of thinking only in one way, my lifestyle hasn't changed. I still make the same decisions for my family and myself, but I realize now that I can't change others - especially strangers - and especially by fighting.

For example: I can't fight about abortion to help decrease abortions. I think that those who are fighting against people (under the delusion that they are saving the unborn) are simply fighting with people.

At one time, I would go on the internet and argue about breastfeeding vs bottle feeding. I didn't change anyone's mind. I was just fighting.

I wasn't always "Rebecca" on VicAd. And VicAd isn't the only place to argue politics. =P

Rebecca said...

Mike, I don't mean that you fight with people. I see you as presenting a case and I have noticed that the people who have disagreed with you have been very nasty - name calling and such. You never "go there." If you have, it's been so rare...

Mike said...

I don't let talk radio or any other media to decide on who I should hate... I have nothing against Europe, I would love to vacation there. I don't have anything against any state in our country. And it always amazes me that someone wants to be elected to a public office they despise.

I've always thought that you can only argue constitutional matters with precedents... A good argument could start out like this " In Hernandez v Wilson, the majority ruled this way for the following reasons." The arguments made by the minority were etc.,etc,etc.... Not just a random posting of the document to try and make people think that they know something...Like Toefer's is always saying" show me in the constitution,"....No show me where it specifically states that this is unconstitutional... Name case law.... After while you get tired of doing your opponents research for them.

Mike said...


You completely shocked me.

Two Rebeccas, who'd have thunk it?

I don't mean to fight but it's frustrating to be arguing about things that have been settled or not a statement of fact.

Edith Ann said...

Again, I agree with your assessment of the numbnuts over ont he VA. Yes, they want everyone else to do all the legwork. Why do you think they regurgitate FOX talking points? Because FOX has dumbed it down for them. They think all of Europe is Socialist.

No, they don't think...for themselves. They let others influence them and this is what they get!

Did you see this:

It is very good, and probably accurately represents a few of those folks on the VA.

Mike said...

I read Paul Krugman and Jeffrey Sachs everyday,then Tom Friedman whenever I can, to get their perspective because it's being similar to mine has been for several years. Sunday, I'll sit down with the Houston Chronicle and read what George Will and Charles krauthammer have to say about Obama...:-) It's never good.

I still can't get over Rebecca listening to ..... I bet when she first saw my writings she thought I was a 1960s tree hugging hippie and one of the reasons this country was going downhill..:-)

On a serious note, she has always been respectful to me ,so I would have never retaliated.... I do remember a couple of Saturday's when she was over caffeinated and letting the trolls have it...:-)

Edith Ann said...


Rebecca said...

Point of View made Rush look liberal.

I get crazy when the caffeine kicks in. In fact, I've had to cut back on my coffee.