I grew up thinking that Roe v. Wade was settled law, and it was never discussed at the kitchen table. It wasn't like there was " what do you think about abortion and by the way, pass the mashed potatoes.” I really hate that this issue is at the Federal level because it prevents us from working on more important issues, and I'm not saying it in a way to disrespect the pro-life movement. That group will nobility continue working in shifts, 24/7 -365 days a year, fighting for the rights of the unborn.
It's getting to where a person like me cannot ignore the issue any longer because every day I hear of a Republican controlled state passing another intrusive abortion law, in the dead of the night without the debate or hearings. Yesterday,Wisconsin governor Scott Walker signed a mandated ultrasound law along with closing more abortion clinics. Republican legislators across our country would not only criminalize abortion after 20 weeks but they would close down most abortion clinics and effectively close all of them with harsh restrictions. I think a rational person knows that this will only make it harder and less safe for poor women seeking an abortion. We know that the upper middle class and rich people will be able to afford other means to get an abortion. You only have to look back 40 years to verify the realities.
The rhetoric is over the top on this issue because how can you call a young 17- year-old girl a murderer for following the advice from her physician, her conscience and family members? I'm not ready to turn that decision over to the government ,nor would I as a juror vote to convict her or her doctor of murder. The term pro- abortion and murder doesn't stop with the woman and her doctor, it goes to all those who don’t believe life starts at conception. That could be Planned Parenthood, Democrats, and people who call themselves pro -choice. Even I know that so- called abortion clinics like Planned Parenthood provide preventive care, family planning, STD testing, cancer screening, and abortion is about 3% of what they do. Think about it, not accepting Medicaid expansions and closing down these clinics will be devastating for poor women.The Texas Health Department projected that the current legislation will produce an additional 24,000 births and that’s in a state where 25% of its citizens are uninsured. According to what I have heard,Texas Democrats are not necessarily balking on the 20-week abortion ban but the necessity of such legislation. Texas is funding 176 fewer clinics than it did in 2011 and 200,000 women have already lost their only access to birth control and cancer screening and there is no provision for rape or incest. The Democratic politicians also know that this legislation is just one of many coming down the road. They know that GOP controlled states are chipping away at Roe v. Wade.
Abortion is a sensitive issue, but it's also being used as a political football to score political points with the pro-life groups. For example, Senator Marco Rubio might introduce a 20- week abortion ban to gain back some conservative street credit that he lost for supporting and leading the Senate immigration reform bill. The House of Representatives have already passed a 20- week abortion ban knowing that it will not pass the Senate, but it keeps the money and votes flowing in. Having said that, I have to acknowledge that a lot of them would support a 20-week abortion bill on core principle beliefs anyway.
While the pro-life movement has gained strength in recent years because of the technology like sonograms ,which show the baby’s movements, it's still an emotional and divisive issue. Polls show that people are overwhelming against late -term abortions but they are also for keeping Roe v. Wade. Unfortunately this issue is being fought on religious and political grounds, so the battles will continue. It seems to me like we could convene an all women panel from both sides to come up with a workable solution because we have already seen what we get when men , who will will never have to endure childbirth, are left to make the decisions.
One of the first questions that a potential supreme court judge will be asked during the Senate confirmation is his stance on Roe v. Wade. Every nominee so far has invoked “Stare Decisis” when they answer that question. I wonder why that is? In reality, I think if one of the more radical abortion bills gets to the supreme court, the John Roberts conservative leaning court would seriously consider overturning Roe v Wade by a 5-4 margin. You should consider that when you vote for a president.
29 comments:
Good blog Mike. As you would imagine, there is a lot of stuff on Facebook, and not just from Texas posters. The best meme going around is the coat hanger shaped like the GOP elephant.
Someone just posted a link to a story about the projection that the ACA will reduce the number of abortions being performed because contraception will so available.
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/10/05/966121/obamacare-birth-control-abortion/
A guy from Germany posted this comment on that link:
"It is not abortion that the church really wants to stop, it is the reduction in cheap labor that control over birth produces. This is why the rich pretend to care about the issue, they want cheap labor, and they want the workers desperate and in need. This way they can pay them whatever they want.
Look at China, reduction in birth from 5.5 children to 1.5 brought the entire nation from a 3rd world country to among the most powerful.
Granted they went too far, but it proves a point, reduced children / increased labor costs, and the rich would rather you die than for them to be less rich."
Interesting angle.
Perry's sister works as a legislative liaison for a chain of surgical care centers, so It's not hard to connect one more dot!
Let's start with this
@Chandralotte: If abortion is illegal, what is the length of prison sentence Republicans wish to impose upon women who get them illegally?
Exactly! The "Then what?" question! Do we punish the doctors? The mothers? What about the father for not stopping her? What about anyone else who had knowledge of her plans to terminate the pregnancy? Would that be aiding and abetting a criminal or accessory to murder?
This is getting complicated!
As usual, Mary Ann makes a lot of great points in her postings at the VA, about a subject she knows a lot about and that’s abortion.
I can’t argue about when life begins but she did omit the neurological view as one supported by reputable doctors.
She continues to use inflammatory words like pro-abortion and KILL to make her point but not once voicing concern for a woman made to carry a child conceived by rape or incest.
The other argument is the legislative one where abortion and women’s health clinics are being shut down. Then they are the unconstitutional intrusive procedures that women wanting an abortion have to go through. I won’t even mention the one about reporting a miscarriage to the police or the redefining the meaning of the word “rape” for women who might want fake one.
It all comes down to when life begins. "My point of view" is that it is when something takes it's first breath or when it is able to survive outside the womb, because until then, they are part of another being, and not their own being. That is referenced in the Bible too.
The sad part is that women will end a pregnancy one way or the other if they choose to do so.
I'm not opposed to the 20 week cutoff period. Wasn't it that way in the 70's?
The GOP and tea party care only about the unborn. Once they are born, they could care less if they eat, have a roof over their heads, or parents that care about them and take care of them. They don't care what kind of education they get, or even if they get educated at all.
Now THAT is what's so sad about this.
Howard O. Weise's letter in the paper cracks me up! He negates the whole entire letter (and the content should be negated!) by started out telling us “FOX News says...”
He ends the letter with: “God save me from people who think they know better than I how to conduct my affairs.” Where do you suppose he stands on the current abortion legislation being rammed through in Austin and elsewhere?
What a dolt!
Here's another point to ponder.
My first pregnancy ended in a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage), at 2 months. Since the baby was alive for 2 months, should I have claimed it as a dependent on my tax returns that year? Hmmmm
Not far off Born,the person running for atty. general in Virginia introduced this bill in 2009.
"The text of Obenshain’s bill:
[SB962] requires that when a fetal death occurs without medical attendance upon the mother at or after the delivery or abortion, the mother or someone acting on her behalf, within 24 hours, report the fetal death, location of the remains, and identity of the mother to the local or state police or sheriff’s department of the city or county where the fetal death occurred. The bill also specifies that no one shall remove, destroy, or otherwise dispose of any remains without the express authorization of law-enforcement officials or the medical examiner, and that a violation of this section is a Class 1 misdemeanor."
I wouldn't be surprised to see a companion bill to ban Sharia law as they just did in North Carolina.
Tina Dupey said" In Texas they want to deregulate everything except the womb.Why? Because religious fervor to selectively applied to reproduction rights.
And this fervor is subjugating women,punishing dissent and blurring the lines between church and state. But at least it's not Sharia law...:-)
EA
The same thoughts went through my mind.
Howard O. Weise is further proof of the disconnect the GOP has with reality. I don't really believe that they are denying their agenda of control. I think they truly believe that this is what is just and right. They have zero capacity to put themselves in anyone else's shoes. I am becoming more and more convinced that being a republican is a genetic thing.
Here's the current Texas regulations on fetal death, in case anyone was wondering:
Registration of a fetal death is not required in Texas if the weight is under 350 grams or if the weight is unknown, the period of gestation is less than 20 completed weeks. The weight of the fetus or, if the weight is unknown, length of gestation is determined by the physician, medical examiner or justice of the peace, as the case may be. When a pregnant woman dies a fetal death certificate is required only if the fetus is removed from the mother’s body and the fetus weighs 350 grams or more, or if the weight is unknown, a period of gestation of 20 completed weeks or more at the time of the mother’s death.
Born, I'm very sorry to hear of your experience with your first pregnancy. I can in no way imagine what that is like.
Without coming off as completely crass, though, it makes me ask the question--We all know families who have lost pregnancies in this manner. If the Catholic Church's position is that life begins at conception, why aren't we seeing more funerals for these babies? I know there is a lot of ritual around a death for Catholics, (well and other religions, too), but I feel like this is another case of "Then what?".
If this was offensive to anyone, I apologize. I had to ask.
People like Howard equate collective with socialism unless it is being imposed by his party.
Rick Perry thinks that the voters chose his party to impose abortion bills, reject Medicaid exchanges and to ram through liberal gun laws….Recent polls show Perry ahead (if he chooses to run for governor) ahead of his opponents by double digits…unbelievable! Those same people would rather have Ted Cruz as their presidential candidate by a whole lot…goes to prove that you can’t go too far right in Texas.
http://www.thegloss.com/2013/07/03/sex-and-dating/why-are-republicans-so-obsessed-with-my-body/#ixzz2YMr8wWtH
From the article you posted
"Abortion after 20 weeks is extremely rare — it accounts for just 1.5 percent of all abortions, and most of the women who wait until 20 weeks to get the procedure do so because they discover a fetal abnormality that puts the fetus’s life or health at risk. Other women are forced to delay until then because they face extreme financial hardship and need to save money for the procedure."
EA, I never got to the point of becoming attached to that pregnancy. I never felt like I lost a baby at that point.
I agree with you about the Catholic Church. Why aren't there funerals done in those instances.
How many pregnant females died of abortion-related causes in 2011? None was reported, while 116 females died of pregnancy complications. The last abortion-related death was reported in 2008. Five such deaths have been reported since 2002, according to DSHS.
How does regulation of abortion clinics compare to that of other health-care entities in Texas? Here are some examples:
1. DSHS says it routinely inspects the clinics at least once a year and surgical centers about every three years.
2. Doctors must have a clinic license if they perform 50 or more abortions a year in their offices. They do not need a surgical center license to perform other procedures in their offices.
3. The public has a right to see inspection records for abortion clinics and many other state-regulated facilities, such as nursing homes. One exception is hospitals.
http://watchdogblog.dallasnews.com/2013/07/abortion-in-texas-facts-figures-questions-and-answers.html/
I think I am going to have to pose the funeral question on the EA Facebook page...
A child who dies before baptism, or a stillborn or miscarried child may be given Catholic Funeral Rites if the parents intended to have the child baptized. The remains of fetuses or stillborns should always receive reverent Christian burial if this is at all possible. These remains may be placed either in specific individual graves or in a common burial area.
I was never give an option. I never saw it. I think the doctor said it was about the size of his thumb to the first joint.
One of my husbands cousin's wives had hers fall in the toilet and it promptly got flushed. I'm not sure if hers was as far along as mine was, but still..........
People have to realize that the human body is not the life that God wants. It's the spirit from within and that never dies.
So, the question is...is it just some pieces of tissue, or is it a human being? Remember, if life begins at conception..
I must ask Jared this question.
If I'm not mistaken there are more evangelical groups pushing these abortion bills than there are catholic ones. On the ACA contraception fight it was the Catholic Churches out in front but that's two different issues.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
No, you are correct. In fact, Mike Huckabee is bringing the Duggars to Texas tomorrow--neither are Catholic. But last week there was a huge group praying the rosary from what I heard, so they are in there, too.
My current Catholic aimed questions are because it is Catholics who have gone out on that limb and who push the 'life at conception' message.
Sure, there are plenty of others religions who are in agreement, but I think the Catholics have championed not only the life at conception, but the contraception issue, too. I don't know of other religious sects who have been as vocal on this matter. Yes, we have Hobby Lobby and Chick-fil-A whose CEOs make religious stands, but to say that the Lutherans or the Presbyterians are pushing an agenda nation-wide is not accurate.
Yes,you will see a large catholic presence at pro-life vents as well as at state prisons during executions.They were also very prominent in the Terri Schiavo right to live episode.
That just goes to show that they are consistent on their life stance.....IMO
I don't know if you can call it going out on the limb if their rhetoric has been consistent on the issue of life....I agree,they have a big megaphone for a group that is only 25% of the population but I see your point.
No single voice....In the real world Catholic bishop Dolan will preach ultra conservative rhetoric and on the other side of the country you will see the "Nuns on the Bus" protesting Rep. Paul Ryan's budget.
And Dolan lying, cheating and stealing...
Then there's that......l:-)
@LOLGOP: "I'm so sick of the 'nanny state!'" - a guy who just voted a government-mandated medical procedure on a woman exercising a right
On abortion and religious beliefs, I always think about a girl that worked for Vic at Dodge City and how she did what she did.
She was pregnant and her doctor told her due to toxoplasmosis the baby was brain dead at about 4 months.
I don't know if it was because she was Catholic or just denied the truth, she carried the baby almost to term, over 8 months, and yes it was stillborn.
A early miscarriage is one thing, the ex claims she had one, but I cannot understand why that girl carried the baby to term knowing it would be stillborn.
At four months she would be on the edge of the proposed 20 week ban, depending on which doctor said when she conceived.
But geez, what a decision to make. I don't understand how she made the one she did.
That's a sad story and probably the reason I believe those decisions should be left up to a doctor and the mother and not done in my name,by the government. ..Of course I only have one vote.
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